I don't know how to figure out what you're talking about, and I can't find it on their websites. For example, Spirit Mountain gives you $1 for every 350 points. For their monthly free play mailings, they just say based on play. Occasionally I get a mailing with four $10 coupons, but haven't received any lately and my play (or losses) has actually been considerably up.

Does it follow that you can be playing and losing more money, but if you're not hitting anything to play back into the machine that your point total would be down? If so, that sucks.

Friends of ours that go a lot told us if we take our Hollywood cards to Philadelphia Park, we'd get free play based on our level. We are at gold card "Celebrity" level and it would be worth $75 free play at Philly Park. Hmm may have to make a trip, only thing is, I've heard that Philly Park machines are tight, tight!! I'm not trying to have a replay of Sands, where I drive 2+ hours and lose all my money within 30 minutes!

Owl, you make some great points here.

1. Don't get hung up on the points, do the math which includes the payback. Every casino I've ever heard of does the cashback on the card based upon play, using a point system. (It could be done in other ways, such as a % of actual or theo win, but I don't know of any casino doing that, if anyone knows of one let me know) To effectively compare clubs check the cashback by computing how much you get back for how much play or "coin in". $1000 played gets you $5, that's .5% of coin in.

2. Find out what comps you are earning (if you can) on the card. Is it in addition to your cashback, or is it one and the same? Some places it's one "bucket" accumulating both comps and cashback, in other places you'll have several separate "buckets" accumulating.

3. What other benefits are there for your higher tiers? Line passes, reserved parking, bank fees comped, regular free show tickets, hotel rooms, golf, etc... All of these need to be figured in.

4. The cashmail (meaning coupons mailed to you or mailers telling you about your free play offers) programs are not usually tied (anymore) to your card level. Most of the time they will be tied to your individual play.

5. If you get better benefits at a casino that is not your favorite, tell your favorite casino. Like Deb says, it can't hurt to ask. If they realize they're behind the competition, they might do something about it if they feel mass numbers of people are going elsewhere.

6. Don't assume the benefits are better or worse with NA or commercial casinos, do the math. Like I've said before, I feel that the lack of benefits at some clubs is linked more to the lack of competition than whether it's NA or commerical. I know of commercial casinos that give NO cashback, only comps. (Now I realize that many NA casinos have no close commercial competition) My casino has commercial competition that is 1 to 1.5 hours closer to our customers (Houston) so we have to be competitive and I'll take the Pepsi challenge on our club any day of the week.

What really baffles me is the difference in comps by player.....my DH and I receive totally different comps from the same casinos. I get better comps at the Hollywood Empress in Joliet, Il., while he gets better from the Hollywood in Aurora, Il. Such a difference, that we only use his card now in Aurora, and mine in Joliet. They are even sent out on different color paper, one brown and one green. Go figure. And we pretty much play the same machines, same amount.

I have spent tons at my local and have never managed to get nothing more then an extra 15 or 20 a week freeplay. I used to get free buffet coupons, now they don't even have a buffet, as as you know they give a 10 dollar coupon for the strip dining choices that won't even cover the full cost of that. I think you have me all in for the Fort mcdowell! lol why not, its out of the way, but might be worth seeing how I am treated with some loyal play there. Its been hit and miss with my visits there, I like it there, but I haven't gone regularly enough to see the real benefits over time hey I will see you at the fort!

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Live From The Dust Bowl

I've asked at the Coyote Club on different occasions and always get "it depends on play" non-specific answer about what triggers the mailer. One employee once said 1500 points in last 3 months qualifies you but have never been able to confirm that. I also don't know if the Wednesday 3x slot bonus they've been running the last few months counts 3x toward qualifying for the mailer or just the $1 for 350 cashback. I posted a pix of the Feb 2010 lowest-tier (that's me) mailer in the Comp topic with $10 every 2 weeks. I know there must be tiers of mailers since I saw someone turn in a $25 coupon which looked in every other way like the $10 one.

In re your question, since points are coin-in (not your bankroll), if you are losing more, you accumulate fewer points for a given bankroll and hence possibly miss qualifying for the next comp mailer.

This has probably been discussed before, but I've given this some thought and have concluded that, in theory, if slot payback is 90% (I have no idea what it is at Spirit Mtn), if you go home with nothing, your points should have gone up by 10x your bankroll. Say your bankroll is $100. If you run that thru and get 90% payback, your point total is 100 (1 point=$1 coin-in) and your payback was $90. You play the $90 and payback is $81, but your point total is now 190. Play the $81 and you get $73 payback and point total is 271. Etc. Etc. When the credit meter finally reaches 0, you should have 1000 points. I can see how machine volatility and such can play havoc with this but again this is in theory. I'm a low roller and when I put in a $5 on a slot I sometimes watch the "session points" on the Coyote Club display and if I reach 50 points for that $5, I feel satisfied I got my money's worth of entertainment.

Yes, it's all based on play or "coin in". It can be done in other ways, but I've never seen any casino do it on anything but coin in.

And yes, since it's all based on coin in, if you don't get many "hits" you won't have the ammo to rack up a lot of points.

Your theory is correct, however if you did play a 10% hold / 90% payout machine and experienced $90 back for your $100 of play, that would be purely coincidental. The 10% hold / 90% payback only happens after hundreds of thousands or even millions of spins.

As for the mailers, generally the entire database is put through formulas that range from simple to very complex. Your casino may be segmenting it's cashmail database into 3 different tiers, 10 different tiers, or 100's of tiers. More than likely it's between 10 and 20 different tiers. There could be a number or reasons the person you talked to couldn't give you a good answer for your question. It could be largely confidential and they are being vague on purpose, or the person didn't fully understand how their system works. For a better answer, try going up the chain. Find the "Database Marketing Manager" or "Director of Marketing". Someone is a position like that may be able to tell you more info than you'd think.

I don't understand how free play is awarded. I have a friend I gamble with. When we go together, we sit right next to one another every minute we are there. I have went at least 1 extra weekend with out her. So, know I have gambled more money then she has. Why is she getting 3 times as much free play as I am. Example, my teir score is quite a bit higher at Harrahs then hers last year. They offer me 25 free play and her 50 -75. Even at Tropicana in Laughlin. I went 2 more times then her last year, they are giving me 50 and her 150. Is it because they want her to come more often? If it is based on play, I have played alot more then her.

That is how we feel about it to. They always ask about shows and other stuff but we go to gamble, thats how we have our fun.It is nice though we have not payed for food or rooms for so long I wouldnd now how to act if we did. O and we love Tunica to .

That's a tough one. You may want to inquire with someone in Marketing Management. There's a possibility that something got fouled up (mistakes can happen) and you're stuck in the wrong tier. It never hurts to ask. I would make the inquiry to someone above the Club Supervisor level, Manager / Director, etc...

Also, only carded play counts, are you using your card all the time? Have you noticed after long play sessions that your card says "please reinsert card"?

I do have to say, I've had to investigate a fair share of these types of issues with a husband/wife. The two would inquire to me and I'd check their play. They would say that they were both playing the same amount but when I'd check I'd find that one of the two had actually been playing more, in some cases A LOT more. That can be a delicate position to be in.

In other cases they were pretty close, but one was playing at the very top of a tier but the other played just a little bit more pushing him/her up into the bottom of the next tier.